Reply With QuoteI'm not buying it.
http://online.wsj.com/article/...icles
Quote, originally posted by Wall Street Journal » Detroit's big three auto makers have gained ground in recent quality surveys, but a leading vehicle-price resource says American brands still lag behind Japanese and European competitors when it comes to predicted resale value -- a critical measure consumers use to decide whether a car is a smart buy. For 2008, Kelley Blue Book says the five brands with the best overall predicted resale values are Volkswagen AG's Volkswagen, BMW AG's BMW, Honda Motor Co.'s Acura and Honda brands, then Porsche AG's Porsche. Rounding out the top 10 are Subaru, Lexus, Infiniti, Audi and Toyota.
Three Volkswagen models rank in Kelley Blue Book's top 10 for resale value, including the Eos.
None of the 10 top-ranked brands in KBB's latest survey of predicted resale value is made or owned by a Detroit auto maker. Detroit-made or -owned brands made up eight of KBB's 10 worst resale picks for 2008 models.
Boosting resale value is an urgent task for Detroit's auto makers. With data about used vehicle values and predicted resale values -- also known as residual values -- widely available on the Internet, consumers can fairly easily factor likely resale value into a buying or leasing decision.
Detroit's auto makers have suffered in such comparisons because they have tended to push for share by overproducing, then slapping on big discounts or selling vehicles in bulk to rental-car companies.
Those tactics undermined resale values for models on the road and the predicted resale values used by finance companies to set lease payments on new cars. Detroit's Big Three have recently slashed production of even hot-selling items in an effort to boost residual values.
KBB, the nation's best-known vehicle-valuation service, says it develops its resale-value projections by analyzing new and used vehicle data, and projecting the likely value of new models after five years of ownership. It says it excludes low-volume models and most vehicles with sticker prices above $60,000.
For example, a customer who paid the $17,507 list price for a Honda Civic LX sedan could wind up spending less to own the vehicle for five years than she would if she paid $15,995 for a Ford Focus SE sedan. The average Honda Civic LX, according to KBB's calculations, should retain 51% of its value after five years, while the average Ford Focus SE would be worth 31% of its original price. Based on those figures, the cost of the Honda Civic less the projected resale value would be $8,579, while the Ford Focus less its projected resale value would cost $11,037. (The example doesn't factor in interest charges.)
That disparity would tend to make the monthly cost of leasing the Focus higher, because the customer has to pay off more of the car's original sticker price. The Focus's manufacturer, Ford Motor Co., can balance the equation by offering a rebate up front -- and often does.
Volkswagen has steadily moved up the resale survey's rankings in the past five years, helped by a combination of value pricing, European styling and fuel efficiency, KBB says. KBB predicts vehicles sold through Volkswagen will retain 48.1% of their original price.
Three of the German brand's models in particular -- the Eos, Jetta and Rabbit -- have average residuals greater than 50%. The majority of Volkswagen's vehicles have held more than 48% of their original price over the past five years, KBB says, and all but one model has improved its residual values in the past year.
Volkswagen has a minuscule market share in the U.S. but has hinted it intends to add capacity here and ramp up sales.
Of the four brands ranked immediately Volkswagen, none was separated by more than a percentage point.
A year ago, Acura and Honda tied for the top spot. This year's results in part reflected differences in the way Kelley calculated residuals. Despite failing to maintain the top spot in the survey, Acura and Honda models improved their resale values from a year ago, KBB said.
"We'll be back," says Mike Spencer, an Acura spokesman.
BMW's Mini brand and Toyota Motor Corp.'s Scion hold better than 50% residuals but weren't counted by KBB because they didn't have at least four nameplates in their portfolios.
Ford and Chrysler LLC dominated the worst depreciation list with four and three brands each, respectively. Ford's luxury Jaguar brand, which the auto maker hopes to sell early next year, retains just 34.1% of its original price, while Ford holds 33.8%, Lincoln 33.3% and Mercury 32.5%.
"Obviously, if you're building more products than there is retail demand for, you'll be tempted to sell them to rental fleets. That's something we've certainly done in excess in the past," says Jim Cain, a Ford spokesman.
He says that some of Ford's newer vehicles, such as the Edge crossover, have held good residuals and that the auto maker's image should improve as independent assessors like Consumer Reports magazine note the company's improved quality.
GM's Chevrolet Corvette managed to nab a mention for good resale value in the high-performance and individual model categories. Honda's Civic holds the best hybrid residual, KBB says. Toyota's Tundra is the best resale bet for pickup trucks, Acura's MDX for sport-utility vehicles and Honda's Odyssey for minivans.
LotusEnthusiast.net | BespokeMotor.com -- the best of Audi Exclusive
FS: Official Mercedes-Benz W201 service manuals
I'm not buying it.
I guess they are lumping Scion in with Toyota. I can attest to my xA holding it's value. With the current gas issues I have seen the xA listed for close to what I paid in MSRP
Quote, originally posted by kwik!gti » I'm not buying it. VW has consistently ranked near the top in resale value studies. "Not buying it" or not, it's the truth.
I'm not buying it either.Especially since I don't see Land Rover near the bottom.
Modified by jwaters943 at 8:46 AM 9-28-2008
1989 Cadillac STS * 1991 Ford Escort GT * 1997 Honda Civic EX * 1997 BMW 528i * 1998 Honda CR-V EX * 1999 Acura 3.2 TL * 2000 VW Golf GLS 1.8T * 2001 Land Rover Range Rover 4.6 SE * 2002 VW Passat GLS 1.8T * 2002 Honda Civic EX * 2006 Lexus GS430 * 2006 Honda Pilot EX-L * 2007 Mitsubishi Outlander XLS * 2009 Hyundai Genesis 3.8 * 2010 Kia Forte Koup SX * 2011 Hyundai Sonata SE
VW makes great cars for the price. Always have, always will im sure. Nice to see they are keeping up.
Quote, originally posted by kwik!gti » I'm not buying it. Do a search for used MKVs. Jettas, Rabbits, GTIs, (R32 especially).
They hold their value very well.
Interesting that Scion/Mini were above 50% but were disqualified for having less than 4 models available.Volkswagen has always had pretty good resale values...this isn't super-shocking to me. They also haven't been slammed by drops in pick-up truck lines etc.
Quote, originally posted by The Ninja » I guess they are lumping Scion in with Toyota. I can attest to my xA holding it's value. With the current gas issues I have seen the xA listed for close to what I paid in MSRP They said they're not counting Scion because it has less than four models, same thing with Mini, even though both brands would actually be on top for resale.
Quote, originally posted by velocidub » Do a search for used MKVs. Jettas, Rabbits, GTIs, (R32 especially).
They hold their value very well.
Edmunds also gave the Rabbit and Jetta awards for top resale, although the Mini was up there too (yet not in this list).
That being said, I actually LOL'd at the dealer sales manager's offer when I went to trade the Rabbit in on a GTI.
In 2006 when I bought my MKV I traded in a MKIV 2003 GTI 1.8T.They gave me $14000 for the MKIV +$1000 owner loyalty.
They put the 2003 on the lot for $18995!
VW certifid. It was gone in a few weeks. (I checked from time to time)
Anyway, I paid $17600 ($19500 MSRP) for the 2003 and 2 1/2 yrs later it was for sale for $18995. Amazing.
Damn...I was hoping to pick up a pre-loved C6 on the cheap.
Here I was thinking this sweet IY 20th (a now 6 year old car) listed at $18k was pure insanity. I guess not, then again, no one's bought it yet either.
PSN: PhilipGTI
Sweetberry - Team My Little Pony
The incredibly high resale values of the TDI can't hurt...
Quote, originally posted by velocidub » Do a search for used MKVs. Jettas, Rabbits, GTIs, (R32 especially). They hold their value very well.
The crazy thing about the MKIV R32 is that some people are asking more for them now than my local dealership was selling them for new when they couldn't get rid of them...
RareSportBikesForSale.com / The Adam Carolla Show / CarCastOriginally Posted by admirallaserbeam
FS: 2006 Volkswagen Passat Sedan 3.6L VR6 4Motion w/Sport Package
You live in Fl, if it's not a Benz, BMW, Rolls, or Bently, it isn't worth people's time to even stop by to look at it.Ahhh Fl land of alligators and old people.
Well, look on the bright side: all those VW owners who will never buy another one at least don't have to be worried about crappy trade-in value at the Honda dealer.
Around here VW resale isnt all that strong, Im not buying it either
Quote, originally posted by kwik!gti » I'm not buying it. VWs have had excellent resale for years.
Not to go down this path for the 700 billionth time.I've owned 4 new VW's and 1 new BMW this decade. Three of the VW's were problem free at 40k to 50k miles, my 02 GTI 1.8t had the most problems - the friend I sold it to still has it with over 150k on the clock so it must treating him right.
I never trade cars I buy new, typically sell them on Autotrader to get top $$.
All I can say is the $$ I got for every VW I've sold has always been a a pleasant suprise, in the case of my 03 and 06 Jetta TDI's (driven over 100k miles between them) I practically drove them for free.
The late model BMW's I've sold - not so much.
Modified by badb5 at 10:05 AM 9-28-2008
Quote, originally posted by Dextrobrick » Damn...I was hoping to pick up a pre-loved C6 on the cheap. The flip side of that is the resale will be strong for you as well. I bought my 1998 Corvette in 2001 for 33k. Almost four years later it was stolen and I received 28k from my insurance company for it, based on local comps.
maybe TDI's are boosting the #'s
Quote, originally posted by badb5 » Not to go down this path for the 700 billionth time. I've owned 4 new VW's and 1 new BMW this decade. Three of the VW's were problem free at 40k to 50k miles, my 02 GTI 1.8t had the most problems - the friend I sold it to still has it with over 150k on the clock so it must treating him right.
Yes, let's not go over this again...VW may have terrific resale, but it has one of the worst customer retention rates in the industry. Last time I checked, roughly only 13% of VW's customers come back after owning one--that's around Mitsubishi and Suzuki in terms of retention. Compare that to the leading brands in the industry, Toyota and Hyundai, who typically have over 60% of their customers replacing their Toyotas and Hyundais with another one.
Quote, originally posted by Swallow Doretti » Yes, let's not go over this again...VW may have terrific resale, but it has one of the worst customer retention rates in the industry. Last time I checked, roughly only 13% of VW's customers come back after owning one--that's around Mitsubishi and Suzuki in terms of retention.
.Haha you disrupted VWs talking point.
Quote, originally posted by Swallow Doretti » Yes, let's not go over this again...VW may have terrific resale, but it has one of the worst customer retention rates in the industry. Last time I checked, roughly only 13% of VW's customers come back after owning one--that's around Mitsubishi and Suzuki in terms of retention.
I find that very hard to believe - show me where retention is only 13%.
Found it per JD Power Honda is 60% and VW is 35.5%http://www.thetruthaboutcars.c...brand/
Suprising:
Mazda is way down 26%
MINI 32%Cadillac and Chevy are 55%
Modified by badb5 at 10:42 AM 9-28-2008
Quote, originally posted by 28 » maybe TDI's are boosting the #'s With the low all sales numbers, something like a TDI or an R32 can have a big influence on the brand's overall resale. I don't think I'd buy a conventional GTI and expect the resale % that's being stated here. You also have to assume lower resale if you buy a manual tranny.
Quote, originally posted by badb5 » I find that very hard to believe - show me where retention is only 13%.
Even if it is a bit higher, the solution to VWs problems in the USA are CRYSTAL CLEAR... 1, Total commitment to customer satisfaction in DEED not just in word, and 2, a wider range of products and trim options, ala carte ordering. Shiny new HQs and stupid ad campaigns obviously won't fool many people.
Quote, originally posted by badb5 » I find that very hard to believe - show me where retention is only 13%.
It is probably low as far as the industry avg...but 13% is an exaggeration.
We are all aware of VWOA and USA dealers sub-par service and reputation.
Also VW's part supplier issues.
They will fix this problem.
Toyota is the target
Quote, originally posted by badb5 » Found it per JD Power Honda is 60% and VW is 35.5% The usual interesting commentary there
1. Toyota - 63.9 - Who woulda thunk!
2. Lexus - 63.2 - Ditto.
3. Honda - 60 - I’d love to see the breakdown for the models. My hunch is that the CR-V and the Accord were the top two.
4. BMW - 56.5 - BMW has improved seven percentage points since 2003. Despite their models' controversial styling and iDrive, customers keep coming back to the roundel.
5. Scion - 56.3 - No three model line-up is as close in demographics and income levels as the xA, xB and Tc. Although I still think the Tc should have been sold as a Celica, kudos to Toyota for ignoring the above stats and releasing three all-new Scions in the next three years.
6. Cadillac - 55.5 - Did J.D. Power do an ajustment for all those new car buyers who died shortly after the survey? In the remarketing industry we get a LOT of Cadillacs and Buicks. Repos are often voluntary, due to the prior owner’s demise.
7. Chevrolet - 55.3 - The Impala, Cobalt, Corvette and Silverado have all done a good job over the past couple of years… although only the later two are class leaders. If GM built a minivan that didn’t look like an elongated two-step staircase, Chevy might have been in the top five.
8. Mercedes-Benz - 53.6 - A real shocker. Mercedes-Benz has more lemon law vehicles than all other luxury makes combined (excluding Infiniti). The C, E, and ML classes don’t offer a single class-leading mainstream luxury vehicle.
9. Ford - 53.3 - I don’t see how Ford was able to get here. Oh, wait… the F-150 and Mustang! Never mind.
10. Hyundai - 51.6 - Offer an extended warranty, a lineup that's a good match for Toyota and a heavy value quotient and you get a strong repeat customer base. Slam dunk!
I’ll skip the next four (Subaru, Nissan, Porsche, Hummer). I don’t expect these niche players to enter the mainstream markets in the near future. Subaru is planning to go upscale, Porsche will have to deal with VW and Hummer is nothing more than a special vehicle for those who have always ridden in something yellow. Nissan is already on the highway to mediocrity, but that's a topic for another day.
15. Suzuki - 43.9 - Suzuki's notched up a 23 point improvement since 2003. I’ve seen thousands of Aerios, Veronas, Forenzas and Vitaras go through the auction block; Suzuki is the most underrated automaker today. They're pretty much where Hyundai was in 2001, when vehicle quality and dealer development were improving dramatically. By 2010, Suzuki could well be the next Hyundai.
16. Kia - 42.8 - I don’t have as much hope for Kia. It’s not because their products are mostly uncompetitive, or that that their quality is still in the low second-tier. The biggest problem: they’re now Hyundai’s younger sibling. (Kind of like Plymouth in the '90’s.) I don’t see how they can outdo a sister brand that's holding all the cards.
17 thru 21 are not my cup of tea. Too much badge engineering (GMC, Dodge, Saturn) and an SUV bastard child (Land Rover) whose only fortune in the past 20 years was a brief marriage to BMW. That said, the Caliber would have been a grand slam if gas had gone down to a dollar.
22. Buick - 39.9 - Again, you gotta wonder about the death quotient. Perhaps the Lacrosse really is a dud.
23. Chrysler - 38.2 - Most of Chrysler’s line-up would be close to class leading if it weren’t for the muddleheads at Daimler. I miss the days when Chrysler stood at the forefront of design: the Viper, the LH’s, the early 90’s Ram, etc.
24. Acura - 37.6 - Not a surprising result, given Honda's tendency to leave big gaping holes in Acura's price and market demographics; the RL, RSX, TSX, and MDX appeal to very different buyers. On a side note, I wonder what percentage of these buyers simply decided to buy Accords the next go round.
25. Lincoln - 37.3 - Who cares? Billy really screwed the pooch with this brand.
26. Audi - 35.6 - If VW knew how to build cars that didn’t have the long-term durability of a Kia Rio, they'd be the kings of the North American Yuppie market. Instead they offer the worst warranty in the entire industry and electronics that not even AC Delco would have tolerated back in the '70’s.
27. Volkswagen - 35.5 - Why hasn't TTAC pointed out that VW lost over a billion dollars in the North American market last year?
28. Volvo - 35.5 - What do you expect when Ford decides to have the S60/S80 languish for eternity and makes the S40/V50 as tasteless as the lunch buffet at Shoney’s.
29. Saab - 33.4 - Saab should have been axed ten years ago. A month ago I bought a Saab 900 S that was in pristine condition for $1300. It was built in late '95, had the body of a '96, and had been repainted at the factory with a color that was used only for the '97 models. I wonder if Chrysler will be using a similar formula soon.
30. MINI - 32.4 - I hope BMW makes a second model for this "brand." It needs one.
31. Mercury - 31.9 - Everybody’s late aunt had a Mercury. Unfortunately, when you asked her what type of car she had, she'd say, "Blue!” And there you have it: Mercury’s position in today's marketplace.
32. Mitsubishi - 30.5 - This company shouldn’t exist.
33. Jaguar - 29.8 - Ditto.
34. Infiniti - 29.0 - Finally, a study that exposes Infiniti for what it is: a brand dedicated to winning the hearts of enthusiasts and pissing off long-term owners with inferior quality at all levels. If you’ve ever looked at Lexus, BMW and Infinitis at auction, you'd know who invested money in their powertrains and interiors. I’ll give you a hint: it wasn’t Infiniti.
35. Pontiac - 27.8 - Cheap plastic doesn’t get you far in life and apparently not in an automobile either. Then again, I’m sure all the Aztek owners went over to Buick.
36. Mazda - 26.8 - The Mazda 3 is supposed to be the class leader. So is the MX-5. The Mazda 6 is one of the few midsized vehicles that isn’t an outright porkster and the RX-8 is a true joy to drive. I think a big part of the disconnect must come from all the ticked-off 626 and Millenia owners.
37. Isuzu - 4.7 - Not even Joe Isuzu can save this company from the GM black hole of brand management. Do they still sell the Ascender and Vehicross?
"One thing I’ve noticed over the years is that if you drive into London at 6am, half of the cars on the roads are Porsches and Astons. Whereas if you go in at ten to nine, they’re all Renaults. Simple solution, then. You want a nice car? Get up earlier and do more work."
-- Jeremy Clarkson
Quote, originally posted by velocidub » .
They will fix this problem.
Lets see they've been saying this for how many decades?
Quote, originally posted by badb5 » Found it per JD Power Honda is 60% and VW is 35.5% VW has done their homework as well, they figured that most people were going to the CUV/SUV (If touareg was too much) or minivan (Kids). With backfilling into the CUV and Minivan category, they are hoping to keep more clients.
Derek Douglas
Internet & Fleet Manager
Commonwealth Audi-VW
714-415-5841
Quote, originally posted by 1SICKLEX » 36. Mazda - 26.8 - The Mazda 3 is supposed to be the class leader. So is the MX-5. The Mazda 6 is one of the few midsized vehicles that isn’t an outright porkster and the RX-8 is a true joy to drive. I think a big part of the disconnect must come from all the ticked-off 626 and Millenia owners.
Part of the problem was Mazda line up did not all feel equal in terms of quality. The Protege felt much better made than the 626. The 3 felt better than the 1st gen 6. So when cross shopped against other midsize offerings in that very competitive market, many compact Mazda owners probably went to another brand when "moving up". They kept a small minivan when everybody went huge, which cost them lots of buyers. The Tribute went basically unchanged since its introduction, and they basically gave up the pickup truck market. They only offer basic reg cab B2300s and ex cab 4x4 B4000s with very few options available.
_______________mazda__________________ http://www.spellchecker.net/spellcheck
||||||||||||||||||ɯɐzpɐ|||||||||||||||||||||
I've often thought that VW owners move up to entry level Audi, BMW or Mercedes when it's time for another car. They have the same maintenance expectations for the more expensive German iron and aren't worried about it - I know I'm not.The price difference between a loaded VW and a BMW 3 Series lease special is little to nothing, especially when you factor in free BMW maintenance.
Although the BMW lease specials are going away, so this could change.
Quote, originally posted by mobile363 » VW makes great cars for the price. Always have, always will im sure. Nice to see they are keeping up. oh....were you being serious?
TCL3.0 compliance status: Pending QA
Posting Permissions
