Sorry, but this sounds like you don't really know anything about these vans, nor their market. Why spend so much time on posting, then, and predict yet another demise of the largest European car manufacturer?
The minivan market is shrinking fast in the U.S. Einstien/Makes me wonder why VW would want to rebadge a non-class leading product with a shrinking market share.
This thing should sell like the Eurovan - with huge incentives and discounts. Just what VW needs to turn it around in the U.S.
- you seem to have missed the 2008 part ( new model)
- third place is not bad for an American product
- while shrinking, the market is still large and VW wants a part of the pie back, with its own offerings built in the US, and is only bridging with this one
- there are many benefits to VW that go beyond the short-sighted how many of these are sold, and at what profit; nevertheless, given where these are built, contrary to many German-manufactured VWs, these will not be sold at a loss, and in addition, will bring traffic to VW dealers
- most of the pertinent reasoning has been extensively discussed in this thread
Quote, originally posted by badb5 » The minivan market is shrinking fast in the U.S. Einstien/ Makes me wonder why VW would want to rebadge a non-class leading product with a shrinking market share.
This thing should sell like the Eurovan - with huge incentives and discounts. Just what VW needs to turn it around in the U.S.
I will go out on a limb and say if the Routan is sprinkled with enough strong VW exterior cues, strong driving dynamics and genuine VW interior I predict it will be a hit. Hmmmm let’s see it will be cheaper than a Toureg and call haul more people and cargo?
Not every prospective VW customer wants or needs a Toureg but are looking for something to carry more than a Passat/Jetta wagon, what choice is there for said customer at your local VW dealership?
At this juncture this is but once choice for said Family who wants to spend under $45K and still purchase something from their VW dealership. This family is known as the “Routan Clan”
Quote, originally posted by feels_road » - you seem to have missed the 2008 part ( new model)
- third place is not bad for an American product
- most of the pertinent reasoning has been extensively discussed in this threadThe Car and Driver test from last November was with the new redesigned 2008 Dodge Caravan SXT. They went on sale earlier last year. This is the new one.
I would appreciate hearing the collective TCL wisdom on CUVs versus minivans. I am unclear of the difference between the two, as they both seem to be movers of up to seven peoples. What are the characteristics that make a CUV a CUV and a minivan a minivan? It seems apparent from this thread that many TCL members feel stronger emotions for one over the other. Please elighten me.
Thank you.
Quote, originally posted by Richard Steckly » I would appreciate hearing the collective TCL wisdom on CUVs versus minivans. I am unclear of the difference between the two, as they both seem to be movers of up to seven peoples. What are the characteristics that make a CUV a CUV and a minivan a minivan? It seems apparent from this thread that many TCL members feel stronger emotions for one over the other. Please elighten me. Thank you.
Same thing. The minivan has more space, the CUV is shaped like an SUV. People want SUV looking "minivans" that don't have the word minivan attached to them.
Quote, originally posted by badb5 » The minivan market is shrinking fast in the U.S. Makes me wonder why VW would want to rebadge a non-class leading product with a shrinking market share.
This thing should sell like the Eurovan - with huge incentives and discounts. Just what VW needs to turn it around in the U.S.
The honest truth. This van will do nothing for VWoA or VW in the USA. An exercise in futility like the EV.Clearly a case of VWoA shooting itself in the foot yet again.
Now I could have seen VW using the next generation Sharan for the USA, but not the Chrysler. It would have been better for VW to have waited in this specific case.
Quote, originally posted by cricketchirp »
Now I could have seen VW using the next generation Sharan for the USA, but not the Chrysler. It would have been better for VW to have waited in this specific case.
I imagine the Sharan is still too small for the American market.EDIT: The current Sharan is 182.4 inches long, or 20 inches shorter than the competition. This kind of "not adapting to the US market" is what has hurt VW in the past.
Modified by chewym at 1:57 PM 2-3-2008
I don't disagree with your observation on the OLD Sharan, but the new one will likely be very close to the interior size (if not larger) than Chrysler van.And most importantly be a Eurodesign. Which would at least give the product a reason to be truly viable in the US.
Quote, originally posted by badb5 » Makes me wonder why VW would want to rebadge a non-class leading product with a shrinking market share. You should really be careful with your usage of the term "rebadge," as the VW version of this van will have a distinctive interior as well as VW powertrains. A rebadge it is not.
Quote, originally posted by NewsJunkie » You should really be careful with your usage of the term "rebadge," as the VW version of this van will have a distinctive interior as well as VW powertrains. A rebadge it is not.
Uhh, I thought that VW engines would NOT be used in this vehicle? Even if it does use VW engines, that doesn't make much sense at all given that platform was designed around Chrysler engines/transmissions.
"Of course that's just my opinion; I could be wrong."
Originally Posted by Blackballed
Offifially the only changes are, interior, slight exterior cosmetic, and possibly the suspensions. NO VW powertrains are going to be used.I would be really surprised if VW does anything more on the suspensions than just change out the standard Chrysler shocks and struts for possibly a bilstein upgrade. That ain't gunna acheive much, as the steering and weight will make for a ponderous ride.
There is some serious VW pr spin going on in this thread.
my guess is that VW will sell a handful of these things, on par with the Eurovan numbers, perhaps a bit more, but a trifle none the less.
Quote, originally posted by cricketchirp » There is some serious VW pr spin going on in this thread.
You got that right
"Of course that's just my opinion; I could be wrong."
Quote, originally posted by NewsJunkie » You should really be careful with your usage of the term "rebadge," as the VW version of this van will have a distinctive interior as well as VW powertrains. A rebadge it is not.
With denial like this does any one dare ask why VW chose to offer a version of Chrysler's minivan. Are you able to take your not rebadged Routan to the chrysler dealership for service? If you answered yes, then my friend the Routan is a rebadge....
Quote, originally posted by cricketchirp » The honest truth. This van will do nothing for VWoA or VW in the USA. An exercise in futility like the EV. Clearly a case of VWoA shooting itself in the foot yet again.
Now I could have seen VW using the next generation Sharan for the USA, but not the Chrysler. It would have been better for VW to have waited in this specific case.
Train, is this your alias?
I don't think this is "an exercise in futility". The Routan is going to allow VW to "grow the pie" without a significant outlay in R&D -- pretty smart, overall, especially if it manages to get people into the dealerships.
As for the Sharan -- it stikes me as hilarious with all the whingeing about how "VW doesn't understand the US market" that anyone would encourage them to bring something that has absolutely no chance for success. Sure, I like the Sharan as much as the next person, and would love to have the Touran as an option (even though it was an even bigger QC disaster than the Touareg was at launch), but the realities show that the present size of the Sharan doesn't do well in this country. Witness the Mazda MPV or the 1st gen Odyssey/Oasis -- Honda wasn't even in the minivan game until the super-sized the Odyssey with the second-gen model.
So, even if the new Sharan was the same size as the last-gen SWB Caravan (which ChryCo has subsequently dropped due to lack of sales), it still won't sell here. And, there's not a snowball's chance in hell VW will make the next Sharan as big as the present Grand Caravan because nobody would buy it in Europe then.
--Chris
Quote, originally posted by chrisj428 » Train, is this your alias?
I don't think this is "an exercise in futility". The Routan is going to allow VW to "grow the pie" without a significant outlay in R&D -- pretty smart, overall, especially if it manages to get people into the dealerships.
Problem is that all but the most dense consumers will know this for what it is, and considering the other factors such as dealer service quality and service prices, ect. It will not entice enough folks into the stores to buy a tarted up Chrysler minivan.
Quote »
So, even if the new Sharan was the same size as the last-gen SWB Caravan (which ChryCo has subsequently dropped due to lack of sales), it still won't sell here. .Haha, yet you are so sure that the Chrysler van WILL sell here as a VW product? Surely you jest?
Quote, originally posted by cricketchirp » Haha, yet you are so sure that the Chrysler van WILL sell here as a VW product? Surely you jest? Assuming it comes with the same features as the ChryCo products (Stow-N-Go or Swivel-N-Go), then yes, I do believe it will sell. Heck, the Touareg sells.
And don't call me Shirley.
--Chris
Quote, originally posted by chrisj428 » Assuming it comes with the same features as the ChryCo products (Stow-N-Go or Swivel-N-Go), then yes, I do believe it will sell. Heck, the Touareg sells.
And don't call me Shirley.
Sure the Touareg sells, just a bit better than the Eurovan.
The T-reg is a sales fiasco. Shirley.
When I hear the rosy portrait formed by some on here I think of that tv commercial for Siemens a few years ago. "spin, spin, spin the globe"
Modified by cricketchirp at 9:00 PM 2-3-2008
Quote, originally posted by cricketchirp » Sure the Touareg sells, just a bit better than the Eurovan. Not to go too far off-topic, but the irony is that VW's best-selling model is also their oldest one.
--Chris
Chris I hate to be a doubting thomas but VWoA just keeps the stupid, and I mean STUPID, decisions coming, and coming, and coming.My honest, educated opinion about this move is that it is an ill fated one. Much better choices could have been made. There is a fundamental problem with the management at VW and/ or VWoA with regards to the US market.
this is such a lame move by VW. if they are gonna rebadge a crappy minivan and call it their and then chage what i assume is going to be $40k.. why didnt they just build their own??
Quote, originally posted by westy66 » this is such a lame move by VW. if they are gonna rebadge a crappy minivan and call it their and then chage what i assume is going to be $40k.. why didnt they just build their own?? What part of "The Eurovan was a failure" and "The Microbus is a niche product that will not sell in appreciable numbers" do you people not understand?
And where are you getting $40K from?
Would it kill you guys to be a bit more open-minded?
Alucard -- Autonomous Legion of the Glue Factory...of Death.
so, I wonder if the Dodge Lifetime warranty applies?I would assume, no.
To be honest, I want a VW Van that can tow my car and I don't want a Touareg.
Modified by Chapel at 10:22 PM 2-3-2008
Quote, originally posted by Chapel » so, I wonder if the Dodge Lifetime warranty applies? I would assume, no.
Modified by Chapel at 10:22 PM 2-3-2008You would assume correct. And yet another reason why you'd be better off buying the Chrysler product in this case.
guess I'll have to see what the difference in the cars look like... maybe just do a grille swap
That's not a bad idea. Just buy the Chrysler and then swap the grills. You can look hip for about 250 bucks I bet. LOL
Who knew a minivan could generate this much excitement on TCL? This is great!
Your opinion is just that, just your opinion. You've yet to convince me that your opinion is honest or educated. I can understand some skepticism for a Volkswagen van based on a Chrysler but you're beyond scepticism in preaching doom and gloom for a product you know very little about.
Quote, originally posted by cricketchirp » My honest, educated opinion about this move is that it is an ill fated one.
President
Georgetown Volkswagen
In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, cricketchirp is Golfstrom...Time will tell how all this goes. Right now Chrysler/Dodge sell more than twice as many vans as Honda and Toyota combined. VW sells none currently. If VW sold a single Routan iin this market, they will have sold one more vehicle than they did last model year - and at a profit no less.
Sometimes you have to see the forest through the trees to understand the stop-gap measures necessary to bridge from point A to B. I don't expect most consumers or the car lounge to understand that.
That however won't stop lots of the regular mouth breathers in this forum from blathering on about crap they know nothing about. Right?
Quote, originally posted by jamie@vwvortex » ...I don't expect most consumers or the car lounge to understand that. That however won't stop lots of the regular mouth breathers in this forum from blathering on about crap they know nothing about. Right?
You know your forums well.
Conan1999: <grin>Do you really care? TCL is Poseur Kingdom. The bulk of the posts are generated by a slew of toolbags who've never driven the vehicles they discuss and who are "into cars" in the same way as the nouveau riche display designer labels. Granted, the forum's entertainment value is off the scale, but I wouldn't confuse it with expertise of any sort.
It is like watching your child grow up to be something quite off the mark from what you hoped for. However you still love your child, they just drive you crazy sometimes...
Quote, originally posted by cricketchirp » Chris I hate to be a doubting thomas but VWoA just keeps the stupid, and I mean STUPID, decisions coming, and coming, and coming. My honest, educated opinion about this move is that it is an ill fated one. Much better choices could have been made. There is a fundamental problem with the management at VW and/ or VWoA with regards to the US market.
Your clulessness clearly knows no bounds.This project was the brain-child of Bernhard. You know, the guy who insisted on lowering costs while bringing VW back to its roots? Yeah, that guy.
Again (for the um-teenth time), this van is not about pleasing VW people, or car enthusiasts in general. You knwo what, I will agree with you that there are other segments they could have entered that would make more "sense". CUVs are hot right now. Mazda can't ship 7s and 9s to their dealers fast enough. But, VW in America has more important issues. They need to make money, now. German execs want results, and they want them yesterday. This van is so right, it hurts.
the R&D was shared with another company, its built in NA which greatly helps profit margins in the US, and it fits in a segment that, while slipping, is STILL very popular in the US. As myself and others have stated in this thread, there IS a market for it. Customers are asking about it, and it hasn't even been shown yet.
Will this van solve all their problems? Of course not. A 7-seat CUV would fit the bill better. But, until its made in the US or Mexico, any 7-seater would come here costing a pretty penny more than the competition. This van will, most likely, be competitively priced AND will help curb the financial loss on every car sold here. Once the bleeding stops, VW can focus on the CUV.
In the meantime, the Tiguan looks like it could be popular. Dealers have seen lots of interest in that little guy.
All of your threads seem to be about how you feel. But if you'd take three seconds to actually look at the business side of things, you'd see this is a good move. You may not like vans, and it sounds like you think others are just like you. But, fact of the matter is, they are still popular, and sell hundreds of thousands. The Routan is a cost-effictive way to tap into that market.
I'm done. I don't know how many times I can repeat myself, and this topic certainly isn't worth it.
Everyone that matters thinks its right. The dealer body, the office, Germany, and most importantly, the customer. The only one who don't lioke the move are internet-addicted car enthusiatst who would never buy one anyway. Because, after all, the E46 M3 they want will n3var lose
Modified by turbo20v18 at 1:32 AM 2-4-2008
Quote, originally posted by jamie@vwvortex »
That however won't stop lots of the regular mouth breathers in this forum from blathering on about crap they know nothing about. Right?Jaime, every time I think you sit alone in your ivory tower, handing out edicts to moderators on how to effectively blackhole my posts whilst stuffing your face with an endless parade of bonbons and appletinis, you post something like this and restore my faith. You may be evil, lady, but you're okay in my book!
Quote, originally posted by Mazda 3s » Uhh, I thought that VW engines would NOT be used in this vehicle? Even if it does use VW engines, that doesn't make much sense at all given that platform was designed around Chrysler engines/transmissions.
Correct. For the one billionth time, THE ROUTAN WILL NOT USE A VW ENGINE, EVER.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
